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Allen Nelson
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Perry, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Tue May 13th, 2008 12:42 am |
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And the less guessing you have to do the better off you will be. Keep records this year and it will help you out this year. Remember, as in my example below, don't just figure what it will cost you to go the the event and come home. You still have a lot of expenses that go on at the house whether you are on the road or not. You have to cover these expenses.
When you do have to estimate what something will cost, if you estimate your costs too high, and bid the event higher than you needed to, you will end up with a little extra. If you estimate too low, you will end up with less money.
Another important thing to remember is that if they don't want to accept your bid it isn't the end of the world. If you can't go work events at the price you need to have to make money, you're better off staying home. Not every event you go work is a feather in your hat. You will learn from experience that most of the time, if they aren't paying very well, it's not an event you want to be associated with. When the next contractor or committee asks where you have worked, and you mention that you have worked an event that is known to pay poorly, you are telling them that you are willing to work for low pay because you have done it before. There are some events you don't want to work, and the easiest way to sort them out is to go by the theory that if they won't pay what you need to go and make money, they aren't worth working.
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Justin Crawford
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Hurst, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 30 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:58 pm |
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| Allen hit the nail on the head with his responses. Bid a rodeo at what you think if a fair price to bid at and make some money. I know if a contractor calls you and asks ya right away what you charge it could be tough to come up with an exact figure, especialy with the rising cost of fuel etc, but use your best judgement and try to guess about what fuel would be at that time. All of the later summer rodeos and stuff i have bid, ive estimated gas at $4.05 i figure thats a safe bet. It dont ever hurt to ask them what they have budgeted, that way you know if your wasting both of your times or it is something u think u can work for that price.
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Allen Nelson
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Perry, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Mon May 12th, 2008 01:06 am |
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I guess I'm actually asking the person who started the thread, though I'd be interested in input from anyone else. I have always heard complaints from bullfighters about having someone undercut them, but when I began to think about it, I haven't really heard a lot of bullfighters share information. If a bullfighter doesn't know what someone else is getting to fight bulls, how is he supposed to know if his bid is undercutting the other bullfighter? I think there could be several reasons why bullfighters don't share information about pay. One would be that if you know what someone is getting, then you know how much to undercut them. Another would be if everyone knew what you were really making, they might see that you aren't doing as well as you act like. Neither one of these is healthy. I can honestly say that I have worked with several NFR bullfighters where I made the same, or more, than they did at the events we worked. I didn't consider what they would work for when I bid the events, I considered what I needed and I considered what I thought the market would bare. Since I hadn't worked an NFR or even a circuit finals, I guess I was pretty close to what the market would bare, as you wouldn't expect that someone who hasn't worked a finals would be able to make as much as someone who had. But there it was.
So, I'm trying to find out if anyone shares this information. I have had guys tell me they made a certain amount only to find out from a more reliable source, like the committee, that they did not make that much. I was also surprised when one of the NFR guys told me that he couldn't ask for a raise because he was afraid to lose the rodeo (a top 10 rodeo and Tour event) as he had to have the big rodeo's to be seen by the top guys and return to the NFR. That surprised me because we are lead to believe that only a handful of bullfighters are good enough to work the NFR, and yet he was afraid to lose the rodeo because of price, not his ability, and he wouldn't get the NFR back. Yet, I worked it for the same price and felt that we should get a raise. If the "top guys" don't set the bar high enough, what are the rest of the bullfighters supposed to charge? It may not be the young guys coming in to the business that are keeping prices low if the top guys won't charge enough. If they charge too much, they lose the rodeo, don't go to the finals, and we forget they are a "top guy".
Since no one seems to want to share information, and since I wasn't going to work the NFR, I just bid what I felt I had to have accoding to my lifestyle and commitments and also considered what the market would bare. Hard to charge more than an NFR bullfighter when he would be considered to be "the best", so, I would have to recommend that you bid what you have to have and don't worry about everyone else. I would certainly bet that they don't worry about what you are going to bid when they did their events. However, you have to remember to keep the market in mind. You can bid as much as you want, but it doesn't mean you will get it. If you bid more than the market will bare, you won't work.
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A.Stratton
Planet Bulls Member
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 05:05 pm |
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| Are you asking myself or the person whom started this subject? I have not done anything to this point to ask about pay. I have been waiting to see how my wifes health was going to be before getting involved with bullfighting. We thought she had a brain tumor up until 2 weeks ago when the biopsy reports came back showing it to possibly be nothing more than a scar tissue. So I have been patiently waiting to see if I would even bullfight ever again. No I have no ideas about pay. I am hoping to get to a academy in the next year or so and keep in touch with Cory Wall, my instructor from Sankey's school.
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Allen Nelson
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Perry, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Sun May 11th, 2008 04:29 am |
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| Just out of curiosity, has anyone contacted you with a specific figure? Have you asked around at other places and, if so, have you had any responses that gave you a spcific figure to work with?
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A.Stratton
Planet Bulls Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:43 am |
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| Thanks for giving that example and the info. For someone like myself starting out it helps to have some kind of ground rules or a way to figure what I need.
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Allen Nelson
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Perry, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Tue Apr 29th, 2008 11:39 pm |
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Not disrespectful at all. They probably won't go over their budget and they have a lot of bullfighters wanting the job, so, why should they? Why don't you figure what your total expenses will be to go to the event (including if you have to miss working a job), then add what you think is a decent profit on top of that. A store might mark up a product 100%. So, if you gas, meals, hotel, missing a days work, and miscellaneous expenses were $300, you would ask at least $600 for the weekend. This is just a "for instance".
Why don't you figure out what YOU have to have to work the event and not worry about what someone else thinks. Why not figure out what you would have to have a perf to fight bulls all year long? In other words, what would you have to have for the year to cover all your expenses going to events, plus your rent, utilities, payments, everything. Then, figure out about how many events you can realistically expect to work and divide your total expenses for the year by the total perfs you expect. That will be your break even point, that is, you will work all year and have nothing left over at that figure. Add in some profit so that you will have a carryover for the next year to do things like replace your vehicle, pay taxes, and have a savings account. Bid it for what YOU have to have, not to keep from upsetting someone.
I think if you'll figure it correctly you won't have to worry about undercutting anyone.
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A.Stratton
Planet Bulls Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 12:21 am |
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| Would asking them what their budget is a disrespectful thing to do or is that one thing that should be asked by the bullfighter right off the bat?
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Allen Nelson
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Perry, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Mon Apr 28th, 2008 09:13 pm |
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| He can probably expect to make what the promoter has in the budget. THE primary qualification for bullfighters to work many events is, "will he work for what is in the budget or less?".
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twelvestring
Planet Bulls Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 28th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 08:15 pm |
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| How much should a bullfighter expect to be paid to work a Discovery or Enterprise Tour bullriding if he doesn't want to undercut everyone and make a little money?
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